450 Heli Issue

[jthompson]

:)Hey everyone. Its been awhile that I have chatted, but I have been following everyones projects!

Ok, I have an unexplained problem. Really need some input.

First off, this issue resulted in a heli crash that could have hurt me or someone else. However, I was causes enough to anticipate this and was a ways back just in case.

My heli decided to take off pulling back and to the right. Digging into the ground with surprisingly the only damage was one broken blade.

Now hers more details to my issue.

I ran one battery hovering around the front yard. No issue. Hovered great. Once that pack was done, I grabbed another pack and started to hover when I noticed the tail jerk to the left as if I imputed it. However I had not.

I sat the heli down, tested the controls and then all of a sudden the cyclic servos freaked into an extreme position. I immediately pull the battery in fear a glitch was going to spin up the rotors.

I then pulled the motor connections and tested the controls. No hiccups. I plug the motor back in and the cyclic servo's again freaked. Did another round of testing and seemed ok. I also check the radio battery level and that as well was good.

I stepped way, way, back from the heli, Spun it up to the point of hover, and the cyclic servos freaked. Heli lifted and flipped into the ground.

I went inside and pulled the main rotors off for review and testing.

What I was finding is the cyclic servos were only spazzing when motor plugged in and I have the heli spun up to about hover. When motor disconnected cyclic servos worked fine.


Is it possible that a battery pack is bad and some how causing glitches?

I yet have to do another test with my other pack to see if I can replicate the issue.


Any imput or ideas??

[Hendo67]

Do you have a choke (donut magnet) on the esc servo leads? If not, you could be getting some interference that way.

[MikeB]

That is an odd one. Could be the ESC/BEC, a short in the motor or possibly receiver related.

If it's more than one servo acting strange then I doubt it's one bad servo. I'd still check them over good.

I don't know how a bad pack could cause it as long as your at a decent voltage and not browning out.

:confused:

[jthompson]

No magnet.

How about my receiver and satellite receiver to close to ESC. Or and, motor wires to close to the satellite receiver?

[Eric Lewis]

what servos...are you running the servos on 6v and they are only rated to 4.8?

[jthompson]

Eric, I check with your suggestion and no. they are 4.8 and I am not sending 6v. Thanks.

Can anyone advise if the receiver or satellite receiver if to close to the ESC could cause signal issues? Can the motor wires cause a interference if to close to receivers? I currently have the receiver and satellite receiver antennas zipped to the tail support rods. Is this capable to interference?

What I do not understand is when I used my one pack, I have no issues. Then if I use my other pack, I then have this issue? I also need to again verify this once more.

[MikeB]

2.4Ghz should not have issues with the ESC. Odd about the batteries. Let us know.

[BrokenRotor]

It is possible the one battery pack has an intermittent connection internally. Put a digital or analog volt meter on the power leads and watch as you move the wires around. Flex the power and the balance wires to see if the voltage drops out.

Were the leds blinking on your rcvrs after the servos spazzed out?? This would indicate you lost power to the ESC/rcvr.

[jthompson]

Thanks BrokenRotor, you helped point out what now is the obvious! lol.

Problem solved. I first check the battery pack with a digital volt meter. found no issues. So I did another test and it again went crazy.
Then remembering what Broken Rotor suggested to check the led on the receivers.

Bingo. The satellite receiver lead was not on. Unplugged and tested again to find no more issues.

Thanks everyone for your input. I wasn't checking for the obvious.

However, did find my main shaft is a little bent, so need a new one of those too.


Jim

[MikeB]

Fixed is fixed but I've still never seen a battery or bad connection that would cause....
"I sat the heli down, tested the controls and then all of a sudden the cyclic servos freaked into an extreme position."

Durring a brown out servos should stop in their tracks or reset to their failsafe positions. Why would it force the servo's to extremes? :confused:

[jthompson]

Well it wasn't battery related at all. The signal wire on the satellite receiver after looking it over more was damaged. I would guess that somehow or way when the satellite receiver was plug into the main receiver, it could have been sending some false values. At this time, the led light isn't even on so I suspect that it has failed completely. When I unplug the satellite from the main receiver, I have NO issues. I can only isolate the signal issue to the Satellite receiver.
It was only pure coincident and assumption that it was battery related. I would guess it was on its way out.

[MikeB]

Ahh sorry I misread your post. At times I thought you were still talking about the battery but it makes more sense now that I understand you use a satellite.

Check the satellite wires. If they are ok, rebind the receiver with the satellite attached and see if the issue goes away.

[BrokenRotor]

Electrical problems can be very hard to troubleshoot when they are intermitant, and over the internet like this. Sounds like you got it figured out. Like Mike said, if the wiring checks okay, then rebind and see how it acts. You can buy that little interface cable between main and sat rcvrs if that is bad.

[jthompson]

yea, the signal wire is damaged right at the connector. I do need a new one. Really do appreciate everyone’s input. I know it might be difficult to diagnose on the forum, but it did actually help me locate the issue.

I have been enjoying flying my 250. I LOVE that heli. I just need to get my 450 in good running order so I can put it in my 500E fuselage.

Thanks again!

P.S. BrokenRotor, I have been following your scale build. Very excited to see your results. I really like scale looks.

[BrokenRotor]

yea, the signal wire is damaged right at the connector. I do need a new one. Really do appreciate everyone’s input. I know it might be difficult to diagnose on the forum, but it did actually help me locate the issue.

I have been enjoying flying my 250. I LOVE that heli. I just need to get my 450 in good running order so I can put it in my 500E fuselage.

Thanks again!

P.S. BrokenRotor, I have been following your scale build. Very excited to see your results. I really like scale looks.

Glad we could help all help:D

As much I wish I had the skills of our 3D pilots, I have always wanted to fly scale. I hope to have three total by next spring. Fingers crossed...

Happy fly'in to ya!!!:D

[MikeB]

As much I wish I had the skills of our 3D pilots, I have always wanted to fly scale.

*cough* BS *cough*

Joking of course, I will now translate Rotor's comment.

As much as I wanted to finish learning all my orientations, I've always wanted to cut to the chase and crash scale helicopters that are twice as expensive and end up in more pieces.

;)

Doesn't matter if it's pod-n-boom or a scale fuse, it's all the same under the skin. Scale can do 3D just fine. It's like a fat person on the disco floor. They can dance, you just gotta give them some room. (No offense intended to the weight impaired)

:flander:

[jthompson]

LOL!!!!

I may not post a lot, but I jump on this forum everyday to keep up with everyone’s projects or fun and to get a laugh or two. MikeB and BrokenRotor, you two provide great entertainment.

I think I enjoy scale the most, but I also need much more flying time. My first scale attempt was ok, however, I decided to get a different heli and to read up more to what persons have done to reduce some crazy vibrations. I also am doing some modification to the fuslage and giving it new paint. Eventually. But first, good working order 450!

[jthompson]

Some pics of 250 and 500E fuselage

http://www.3drcmn.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=15&pictureid=322

http://www.3drcmn.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=24&pictureid=321

http://www.3drcmn.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=24&pictureid=320

http://www.3drcmn.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=24&pictureid=319

[BrokenRotor]

[QUOTE=MikeB; It's like a fat person on the disco floor. They can dance, you just gotta give them some room. (No offense intended to the weight impaired)

:flander:[/QUOTE]

That is flippin' funny Mike. I laughed out loud at work:D

[BrokenRotor]

I will be watching for your scale build up thread.:cool:

[BrokenRotor]

[QUOTE=MikeB;10926Doesn't matter if it's pod-n-boom or a scale fuse, it's all the same under the skin. Scale can do 3D just fine. [/QUOTE]

I would like to see an Agusta 109 or Robinson R44 do some loops, rolls, and tick tocks:rolleyes: Why I'd pay money to see that:D:eek::D

Sorry Jim for taking over your thread..

[Eric Lewis]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiC1xuVpWuI

[povern]

Eric, I was really afraid to click on that link. Thought it was going to a fat person on a disco floor vid.

Paul

[Eric Lewis]

no it would be more akward...like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmnimOoJeJ4

[jthompson]

LOL!

I watched that twice and I don't really even know why.

[nexgen]

MAN that's alot of forehead!

[jthompson]

I need some input!
Just recently received my 5-blade rotor head and was just looking it over. All looks great. I was feeling each blade grip and I noticed that one of the blade grips when turning feels a little notchy. All others are smooth. I have not taken it apart for further inspection yet.
SO, I wanted your inputs to see what may be causing the notchy feeling. To tight, bad bearing?

Cheers!

[Ken]

Sounds like a bearing.

[Eric Lewis]

either a radial bearing or the thrust bearing doesnt have any goo on it

[mflander]

It's never good to not have goo :)

[Eric Lewis]

truth

[BrokenRotor]

Could be the thrust bearing is too tight and dry. I would take them all apart and check each one, grease them, and then put it back together.

When I received my 5 blade head it had washers preloaded in the grip. Whoever put them together did not pay attention to the fact that one was crooked. I tried to push it in straight but it would not go. After taking it apart I found they had wedged some flashing under the washer. I had to clean it up and then do some machining to get the bearings to all match as far as the depth at which they went into the blade grip. A real pain I thought for the price I paid.:(

Quality control these days sucks IMO.

One last thing. I know if I tighten my blade grips too much I can get that notchy feeling on every one. So you want them tight, just not Super Man tight;)

[jthompson]

Thanks for the advice everyone. Maybe tonight I will start pulling it appart and inspecting. It helps having some more details prior to just pulling appart.

It's going to be difficult because yestarday was the release of Halo Reach and I am a huge fan of Halo, so that is been on my priority for the afternoons! LOL! I even put it in front of my tiling in the kitchen!

I have way to much going on all the time.

[MikeB]

Having owned a few Align heli's, I'd say it's a feature not a flaw. Every time I repack my 450's thrust bearings they come out notchy. I just fly em like that.

[BrokenRotor]

I'd say it's a feature not a flaw.

Are you a programmer or something;)

[Heli Fragmentus]

Are you a programmer or something;)


A software type would have added, "to be considered for inclusion in a future release of the product" :rolleyes: