Kyle Dahl 4000 head speed 450 pro

[Eric Lewis]

amazing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plEOJlw10cU

to prove it isnt fake

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-y6fR_9f1I

[MikeB]

Fake no, playing back on youtube faster then real life, yes. It has to do with number of frames captured per second by the camera. The camera captured less a second than what youtube plays back. Thus not fake but not realisticly accurate. It is playing faster on youtube, thats obvious by the camera's movements.

I have the 2221-6 I got from your dad but I run it at 11 tooth non governed and 12 with a governor. I should try a 13 on it. :rolleyes:

[BrokenRotor]

Do you think those little parts holding the head together are designed for the kind of stress 4K rpm's would put on them, I doubt it;)

Shouldn't take long before we see a :rip: video from him.

[MikeB]

The 450 pro should be able to handle it no problem. For an acceptable amount of time at least :) You'd know you had slop in the links before it ever let go. Prolly tears up dampeners pretty fast.

[csdstudio]

I know this is an old thread, but looking back at this video it is real time. His stopwatch timer matches up with actual time. YouTube utilizes the On2 Flix Flash video encoding software on its servers. As a full time Flash developer, I've used this high end server-side application in the past and can verify that it will encode at a frame rate equal to the source file. In addition, the Flash player itself has a floating frame rate process which handles any video regardless of its frame rate. You can upload a video with any fps, Flix will encode, and the Flash player will sync that frame rate to the time encoded on audio track ensuring accrutate synchronization, even hours into live streams of video/audio. If the video source is 20fps, Flash will play it back at 20fps.

Where people have problems is when they re-encode their own videos before uploading to youtube, thus bringing 3rd party software into play. At that point, anything can happen to the frame rate and synchronization.

But, you can also play that same song along with his video and it will stay in perfect sync from start to finish.

Besides, who would doubt Kyle Dahl? He has nothing to prove being one of the best pilots ever, period. :D

The way they did this video, his dad (Dave) filmed it over and over until they got it right. Kyle did the same routine each time he flew, Dave knew his routine pretty good by that point, anticipating all his moves.

I ran my 6S 450 at 4K rpm using a 16T pinion and the Scorpion 1630. It responds EXACTLY like it does in that video, totally on crack and pure insanity. But, that kind of response requires a pilot like Kyle, as I crashed mine within 15-20 seconds of having WAY too much fun!

I did the same thing with in my Gaui 200 last spring, ran it upwards of around 4700 rpm. Same result (ground, meet heli). :D

I tried a similar run on my Gaui 255, but these little tikes don't run thrust bearings and it threw a grip around 4400 rpm when the radial bearing failed. Luckily I wasn't injured, I can't say the same for my 255...

http://dmixdev.com/images/trashed1.jpg

[MikeB]

I tried the same setup on my 450 Pro. If nothing else I verified with that gearing you can't even hover with a 3S 2100 20C pack. With a gear 1 tooth down from what he used you can hover at 30% throttle.

Might try it again someday with a real battery. Fun to play with, totally don't want to keep that setup unless you hate the helicoptor and want to tear it up prematurely.

Doug saved me this season when I was maidening my 700. Sounds real good up around 2200 headspeed. :) Darn throttle curves. I was too busy dealing with a pissed off overly rich engine and tail that was haiting life at the time.

I still don't buy the frame sync. Variable bit rate, munchkins in the gears, who knows but the heli is real, the flight is real, the camera that recorded it could have been better cause it's not right. I supported DPS video hardware used to do real time recording and editing of multiple video streams for a few years for a computer animation company in rendering farms, a couple production studio's and a local Fox 18 News studio. Learned alot about frame syncing and I have to say something is just not right and I think it's the camera's specs maybe something done post processing wise.

[csdstudio]

Right, but the stopwatch and music don't lie. Like I mentioned, I have that same song, played parallel with the video in Nuendo, which verifies the audio track isn't modified anyway. The stop watch verifies that the same number of fps captured over the 3 minutes translates accurately on playback to the same 3 minutes. My 450 pulled close to 40 amps (CC ICE 50 esc) on 6S just to keep 4k rpm and 14 deg pitch, and it behaved exactly like that video. It's a wonder how these motors hold up to that, it was hotter than snot after my brief 20 second bash. :D

Needless to say, I did a ton of damage when it went in tail first doing a full collective hurricane like Kyle did. By far, my worst crash with the 450, both grips, boom, TT, skids, every gear, all the linkages (either bent or broke), one frame side, motor mount, spindle, shaft, bent swash, entire tail was ruined, just about every part. Stripped all three of my metal gear hitecs. Parts were scattered everywhere after it kicked up a cloud of dirt and grass. Pretty spectacular actually!

The actual frame capture time is so short on these new digital cameras, that any fast motion looks excessively sped up, as there's zero motion blur. I'll rig up my 450 again this summer and give it a go, it will blow your mind ( I could probably handle it better than last time). It was probably closer to 4200 rpm.

Try the rex 450 at 4200 rpm (governor off, 8.8 ratio) in Phoenix, set the kw at 800 watts (~40 amps at 22.2V) and 13-14 deg pitch with cyclic response at 0.5...the real life setup is just as insane and barely controllable. :D

The voltz 35C 6S 1300 batts work great for this setup, delivering 40+ amps no problem.

You worked with an animation factory!? Nice! Freelancing on the side, I've set up my own render farm with 3DS Max and a handful of rackmount servers. Nothing compared to what you worked with I'm sure, but it's fun to set up and see it work!

[MikeB]

If the same flight was recorded with a professional video camera, movements would look more natural. The camera mans tracking is just not natural. Explain it however, that fact is true. Most professional camera men have trouble tracking objects that are not accellerating and decelerating near as fast yet in Kyles video the camera man manages to keep the 450 in the center of the veiw finder in a very unatural fashion. I can believe his dad knows the routine but it does not sufficiently explain the resulting movements.

[csdstudio]

So what are we debating again? :D

Analyze time, let's slow it down. Here's the same video scaled to 110% duration in AfterEffects using standard frame blending and a Waves ShoundShifter plugin to adjust audio to match. It's obviously slower, even Kyle sounds like he's drunk! LOL. The camera movements are still at or ahead of Kyle's flight routine. The music is obviously slower and the stopwatch is way out of sync with the actual video time at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoxTN-fbPOs

[MikeB]

Debating opinion at this point. I believe your saying the video accurately depicts what you would see if you were standing there in real life. I think it's off and the camera is giving it a wierd effect that everyones questioning. Otherwise there would be no debate and noone would question it.... ;) I'm obviously not the only one that sees it and he's obviously not the first person to record a fast 450. Other video's out there that don't have the unrealistic aspects people are questioning.

I don't believe anyones debating the heli setup is fast, just the camera wierdness. Here again most likely a poor camera choice for high speed capture, all these home cameras do their own processing, compression and such and when they fall behind and bitrate drops internally they start skewwing video accurracy/frame rate and quality durring recording. That camera did not record to a raw format i'd bet. Prolly MP4 compression.

I think the issue happened inside the camera. Nothing to do with Youtube.

[csdstudio]

So you're doubting authenticity...

It could be wrong if the stopwatch was cheated slower (easily stopped mid flight remotely for ~30 seconds) and the audio CD slowed down prior to recording (again, easy), then the video sped up prior to uploading. :D

Both of which I could do. ;)

But then you'd have to ask why would Kyle even bother? :eek:

[Eric Lewis]

he was flying it at ircha....it is real and truly that fast...

[csdstudio]

Eric, did you see my post about setting up my 450 similar? It really IS truly insane!! :P

[MikeB]

So you're doubting authenticity...


No, unfortunately you've got it all wrong :)

I've stated repeatedly that it's all real. :rolleyes:

The issue I see is with the camera and it's quality of reproduction which does not just mean picture quality. ;)

In any case since I don't know where this is going either. We'll just say if you were there in person, thats exactly what you would see. Including the robotic camera man.

No amount of debating will make it look normal ;)

[csdstudio]

LMAO! :doh:

You crack me up. Well of course it looks goofey, I'm not doubting that. I thought you were doubting its playback speed, inferring it was sped up or that it's not possible to fly like that :rolleyes:

This topic is now on the :flander:

There goes part of my vacation I won't ever get back. :rolleyes:

[MikeB]

If they took Mark Ryder's camera, a production quality camera, and filmed the same flight. The helicoptor would be just as fast but it would not have the oddities from the camera they used. I believe this is what people are having an issue with. Who would doubt the setup or how fast it is?

I think Mark should step up and help us out on this one.

[MikeB]

btw If I at some point lead you to believe the heli's not fast. I have a 450Pro with the same scorpion motor he ran in the video. It was originally in my flybarless 450SE V2 with a CC Pheonix 60 and 35C packs. I tried the 12 and 11 tooth pinions and either way it's a rocket. I have no doubt how much more a few hundred rpm could add. Gotta love flybarless to.

Good discussions never die. They just change direction.

[csdstudio]

I agree. The strange affect the camera has imposed on the video quality would lead people to believe it was altered.

I do apologize, I was under the impression you were one of them. From your first post stating that the framerate could have been altered when uploaded, that would lead one to assume you didn't believe it was in real time or that it was intentionally altered. :D

People like us don't doubt the setup, it's all the people who think it was doctored or disbelieve the entire video and the capability of the pilot and heli.

Yep, and like I mentioned above, I had mine at > than 4000rpm and it was too much!

[MikeB]

Here's a good comparison of what I was saying. In the first video you can see some times where things seem sped up or unatural. The second video is much better. Wish I could fly my 250 like that.

Video 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge2Y5_ox4sI&feature=watch_response

Video 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxtTSeSg6lk&feature=related

[csdstudio]

Looks good. Long exposure time creates nice motion blur, appearing much more fluid. Based on about 10 degrees of motion blur on blades spinning at 4k, I calculated the camera used for kyle's had a 1/2500 exposure time, creating that goofey choppy movement look.

That first video is horrible indeed, looks no more than 12-15 fps at best. :)

Sent from my Droid.

[MikeB]

Truethfully thats getting outside my areas of knowledge. I know that the video cameras can run a much higher shutter speed than a digital camera up to 1/5-10K I'm guessing due to a much larger aperature, larger sensor, back lit sensors and whatever other magic they do. 1/2500 is pretty darn fast in any case. I tried 1/2000 on my digital camera the F8 was the lowest I could set the aperture to get more light and it was still too dark outside to take a decent picture. Limitations of that models capabilities probably. SP-350 Olympus

We got a Sony Handycam for xmas. Nothing special, I think the shutter speeds locked at 1/60 unless it's set to low light which is 1/30 but it seems to handle quick movements very cleanly.

All that stuff confuses the hell out of me so I tend to ignore it and use all the auto modes. :D

[MikeB]

That video of Kyle's 450 was shot with a phone. Damn good tracking with a phone.

Edit: Thats a compliment to his father btw.

[csdstudio]

Indeed! :D

Sent from my Droid.