My Gaui 200V2 FES gu365 experiences

[nexgen]

So recently I got a fes head and a gu365 on a trade. I have been wanting to try flybarrless for some time now, and now I am excited to get it going.

In this thread I will post about my setup and experiences with the Gaui 200 and flying without a flybar.

NOTE:
The setup information in this thread is for MY bird, and some of the items will be the same as others have experienced, some may be different. It is never a good Idea to just take someone elses settings and mash them into your bird expecting the outcome to be exactly the same. All birds are setup differently and so while some settings are common across the board, other settings are not.

[nexgen]

After lots of research about how the gu365 works, and what to look out for, I started my setup on my bird. Here is a brief rundown of how I setup the bird BEFORE putting the FES unit in, this is all stuff we normally do on our flybarred birds..

1. moved swash ball links, mine are at about 8mm.

2. Leveled my swashplate with a swash leveler, and checked full range was level, adjusting ATV's slightly where needed to accomplish this. I have 0 trim or sub trim dialed in.

3.setup my swash mix in the radio so that I can achieve +-12 collective, and +-8 cyclic. this gives me the max operating range without binding. This gave me 40% across the board in the swash mix. I am also not using swash expo either.

4.I checked tracking, and flew the bird a little to check for drifting, and adjusted the swash mechanically (no trims) to compensate.

I have my D/R and expo setup on the cyclic as well. I left these the same as when I had a flybar:

position 0:
20% expo, 100% D/R
position 1:
20% expo, 85% D/R


once I was satisfied that the bird was setup nicely mechanically, I moved on to the next step, installing the gu365.

ball link location
http://i452.photobucket.com/albums/qq250/RCnexgen/Gaui%20200/FES/IMG_7427.jpg

swash leveled
http://i452.photobucket.com/albums/qq250/RCnexgen/Gaui%20200/FES/IMG_7429.jpg

[nexgen]

Once I decided to start the gu365 install I had to decide where to put it. I also had to decide if I would use the built in tail gyro or my Spartan. I have decided to use my spartan for now. so it's pretty crowded on my bird. This may only be a temporary setup, just to get it going and to get things dialed in to see if/how I like it. I installed the gu365 unit on the belly of the frame, similar to an early Kyle stacy Vid of him flying his flybarrless in his backyard. There is enough clearance under the skids for it to fit. As you can see my wiring is a little ugly for now. I can adjust that stuff later. If you look you can see that I have used a Spartan gyro pad, I used the 4 corner trick, but also put the rest of the square n the middle of the unit, covering most of the bottom. If I spool it up and touch the unit, I can feel NO vibes on the box at all!!!

http://i452.photobucket.com/albums/qq250/RCnexgen/Gaui%20200/FES/IMG_7435.jpg

http://i452.photobucket.com/albums/qq250/RCnexgen/Gaui%20200/FES/IMG_7436.jpg

[nexgen]

So after installing the unit, I did the normal setup steps from the manual, and from the info Kevin provides at He list a.
This part is SUPER simple.

I did the steps in this order:

1. Initialized the Gyro. For me the light stayed red at the end, but thats cause I'm not using the built in tail gyro, this is normal in this case.
2. turned the gains up, and checked for proper swash movement.
3. turned the gains all the way off (counterclockwise) then turned them up to about 25% (clockwise).
4. adjusted the swash mix so Ail and Ele were half of what I originally had. I ended up with 20% on both at this step.

I left my d/r and expo set the way they were (listed above)
Now in to test flights and fine tuning.

[nexgen]

7/22 First Flight:

On my first flight, the heli felt like a dump truck, very sluggish on the cyclic. Also when I would punch the collective, it would list to the right (tail in) hard, and I would have to back off the collective and really work on the cyclic to get it back. It was sorta spooky. It kinda felt the same as when you have the gain dialed down too far on the tail and lose authority on pounchouts and stuff, maybe I was having a cyclic blowout if there is such a thing. I will say that with it like this hovering was SUPER easy and SUPER stable. regular flight was tough if not impossible. I even tried a backflip, but when I put in negative pitch , the heli shot to the side and I had no cyclic authority, and crashed.


7/22 Second flight:

I raised the gains up slightly (maybe around 30%-35% now) dials moved from about 9 o clock to about 10 oclock.
Now the heli responded a little better but was still sluggish. Flips and rolls were possible but VERY slow for me. Also I retained more cyclic authority with pitch pumps. It still felt like the more pitch I gave it, the less the cyclic responded. This was different than I am used to and I did not like it. Also this flight is where I learned the lesson that the gu365 does not like LVC. As soon as it kicked in and the motor pulsed the throttle , the whole unit seemed to shut down and the heli did a hard landing from about 6 ft up.


7/22 Third flight:

This time I turned the gains up to 50%, or slightly more ( about 12-1 o clock on the dials). now the heli started to feel lighter on it's 'toes' than before. the gu365 is starting to feel like I was used to the flybar feeling. The heli was more accepting of harder pitch pumps and flipped easier, but was still slow on the cyclic. Also the cyclic would have a fast shutter coming out of some maneuvers, more noticeable on the Aileron. almost looked like I was doing a crack hover!! obviously it's time to turn the gains down some.


7/23 Fourth Flight:

Now I have the gains down to about 45% (around 10-11 ish on the dials) and this seems like the ideal gain for my setup. I also dialed up my swash mix to 35% (originally 40% at initialization). Flight did not have any wagging that I could notice. also the cyclic was more responsive and quicker than before. I would still like it to be faster (for me faster is better).

I have noticed that there is still a little loss of cyclic control with greater pitch, but nowhere near as bad as previous flights. maybe this is part of how people describe flybarrless as feeling 'different'. perhaps I just need to get better at collective management (I 'd like to think I'm good at it already, but...)


7/23 Fifth Flight NOW THIS IS MORE LIKE IT!!!

I dialed the swash mix back to where it was when I initialized the 365. 40% across the board. Now this is more like it. The heli feels just about like it did with a flybar. Also I am not noticing any weird interactions on spoolup. Cyclic is quick and stable, like it was with my tail link flybar mod. also I can pump on it with no adverse cyclic effects. I am feeling much more confident with it now.

I did sustained back flips, tic toc's loops and barrel rolls and the 365 held on fine. I do see what people say about it being different than with a flybar, you can feel the HH style effect on the cyclic now, and have to steer the heli through the maneuver more than with the flybarred setup.

The bird feels much more locked in now. I still noticed a tiny shudder on aileron, so dialed down the gain a super tiny bit. I think part of it is there is a slight slop on my headlock where the jesus bolt goes, almost like I could tighten it up slightly more.

All in all I will say that after getting it dialed in, this feels just as good as with the flybar setup. Advantages are that the heli is faster in FF and has more power throught 3D maneuvers, the head does not bog really at all, unless I really work it (did it once in flight, with no adverse effects).

many people have complained that this unit is sub par and hard to setup, but with some attention to detail, and if you use the same logic you did when setting your HH tail gyro/servo up in the past, theres nothing to it and it performs nicely.

Like I said in the vid hovering with no controller installed.
"I don't know what the fuss is all about"

as you can see in the pic, I have the rudder limit all the way down as I am not using it anyway.
left the other dials at mid as they are not in use.
http://i452.photobucket.com/albums/qq250/RCnexgen/Gaui%20200/FES/IMG_7438.jpg


PS. I DID run into some tipping on the ground at spoolup during the first couple flights, jiggling the cyclic or collective slightly made it go away for me. As I got it more dialed in, that seemed to go away. Also I pop it up about 4-5 ft off the ground initially, but I have always done that, so no different for me.

Also , on the bench, if I turn on the bird and let it sit, the cyclic will slowly start to drift to the left and forward (looking from the tail). This effect is also reduced as I got it more dialed in. Now I just gotta remember what things would cause tail drift in a traditional tail gyro, and try to apply those here to see if I can cure it.

hopefully I can get a vid or two uploaded soon.

FINAL SETTINGS:
0 subtrim
balls at 8mm on the cyclic servos.
mechanical setup +-12 collective, +-8 cyclic
gain at about 45% on the gu365
swash mix right where it was when I initialized the 365. 40% AIL and ELE.
full sized Spartan foam pad (not just in the corners)
no vibes on the bird, or on the 365



more to come....

[MikeB]

Very cool. I hope in the end it works out better for you than running no controller. I don't know much about the Gaui controller other than it uses piezo gyros.

[MikeB]

"I don't know what the fuss is all about"

After thinking about this I'd have to say it's about the damn near hands off extended inverted hover I did for BrokenRotor last weekend :D It was far to stable to be my handy work. I'm also not man enough to handle those 3d moves without the controller.

Really hope you get it dialed in. The SK360 made my 450 fly like my 600. Given the 200 is alot different and you'll only get so much stability out of something that small but it has to help some when perfected.

[MikeB]

Is the controller perfectly aligned with the frame? In the pictures it looks like it's skewwed a bit which will give you interactions between the 3 axis.

[nexgen]

I did get it as straight as I could but it think she is just a smidge off. I have not noticed any adverse effects yet (time will tell, as I get used to it.)

heres a vid of me doing some light stuff in my front yard.

mo_7UcsQKXc

[MikeB]

Very nice. Putting the heavier night blades on my 450 helped alot, not sure if you have the option of heavier blades.

[nexgen]

I'm running into something wierd with my fes setup. I tested a piro, not so fast, but it was pretty quick, at least 2/sec (Im dialed in to go much faster). The heli is rolling to the left (tail in) and slightly back. I was up high enough and prepared to recover so did not crash. I tried a couple times and it did the same thing.

Any thoughts on why this would be occurring?

Do the cyclic gyros need t be directly under the main shaft? my 365 is back slightly from where Gaui wants me to put it, but I've seen these things in all kinds of locations so that shouldn't be an issue.

the bird may be slightly tail heavy, I gotta check that out.

it was windy today and I started nose into the wind.

whadda yall think?

[MikeB]

Your mounting location should be ok.

The things that I know of that can cause that are:
1.) CG is off. Need to check your front/back and left/right balance and make sure its directly under the main shaft.
2.) Drag from the tail. The SK360 has settings to correct for the drag on the tail. You test by doing full collective pullouts and making sure the heli stays perfectly level while climbing. Not sure what the Gaui controller does.
3.) Not enough hiller decay. The tail thrust causes the heli to tilt during the piro, the gyro corrects and my be making correction errors or correcting too much. Basically a setting that needs tweeked.
4.) Interactions between the elevator and Aileron gyro's because the units not perfectly 90 degrees to the shaft and square to the frame. The SK360 has problems if its off more than like 1 millimeter or two. Any skew here will get you in the end.

The manual for the control should cover this situation to some extent. I'm sure there's also a forum out there where other people may know the proper setting to change.

[nexgen]

This Gyro only has a gain pot, no other settings available (you get what you pay for).

[MikeB]

Forgot to add Swash timing. It can do some funny things.

[nexgen]

So I have been doing lots of flying the fes, and loving it. I have not only been pushing it hard, I have been testing stability as well. I gotta say this thing handles the wind much better than the flybarred setup. When I stick it in a hover, it just wants to stay put. doing slow lazy 8's and stuff like that feels like the heli is on rails, or like it is bigger than it really is. If I use my D/R the effect is even better and I can fly it almost in a scale type fashion.


UPDATE:

I had the heli originally setup for +-12 or so (40% on my PIT mix on the tx) my gage only goes to 12, it could have been slightly more. I have been noticing that I am bogging alot more than I am used too, I figured that the increased cyclic would also have something to do with that. Also I was just slightly above center stick in a hover, and it felt like my usable stick range for good performance flight had been reduced alot. Anything above 3/4 stick or so + or - side was just over kill and bog city, especially with some (even just a little) cyclic.


I decided to reduce my pitch to +-10 or so (34% on my PIT) and just like with a flybarred setup it reduced bogging alot, also things are more snappy as I'm not loading up the disk so much. I also get more usable range on the stick so feel like I have better pitch resolution (at the stick). It just feels better. The heli climbs out about the same speed as before, but without the motor bogging alot to do it. also quick direction changes or stops are easier to do without bogging. I have noticed that I feel more in control in flips and rolls ,and the heli in general does not feel so much like it's on crack. the cyclic speed is still the same, nice and fast, just now it is more manageable.


(remember I'm never at the extremes of both, so this is just an example of max available, and the change)
12+8 = 20*
10+8 = 18* (still nuts but alot easier to fly)

[MikeB]

Not sure how it works out on the Gaui Controller but you give the SK360 10 Degrees of cyclic pitch and then it decides how much to use by your roll rate settings. The extra pitch is only used by the gyro to make corrections. I know you said you don't have alot of settings but it may handle cyclic pitch in close to the same fashion.

[nexgen]

It is somewhat similar, more like a plain old tail gyro setup. Setup the cyclic mechanically without the controller installed, then when the unit initializes, that mechanical setup sets the limit. After that, swash mix adjusts the cyclic speed.